Episode 149: Waking Up From the Trance of Unhappiness - Brian Adler

Brian did an MA in Somatic Psychology at Naropa University. He has studied and practiced both Zen and Tibetan Buddhism for over 30 years. He also trained with Byron Katie and has practiced the Work of Byron Katie for over 20 years. Brian’s motive throughout his study and search was to synthesize and distill the essence of what makes a knowledge of our fundamental okness possible and easily accessible. Brian has worked with people struggling with addiction, depression, and anxiety. He now works primarily with entrepreneurs seeking relief from stress and overwhelm. He has developed a simple practice called ‘noticing’ that reliably uncovers a sense of peace and freedom and empowers people to grow in confidence in it as their natural state.

Connect with Brian Adler: https://calendly.com/brianeadler/15min

Audio Title: Ep149 - Brian Adler
Audio Duration: 01:04:12
Number of Speakers: 2 

[[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to the Heroes of Reality Podcast, a podcast about the game of life and the hero's journey we all experience. Let's jump in with our host, Dylan Watkins, as he introduces today's guest.

[00:00:17] Dylan Watkins: Do you struggle with addiction, depression, or anxiety? Our guest primarily works with entrepreneurs seeking relief from the stress of overwhelm. Brian is an MA in somatic psychology at the Naropa University. He has studied and practiced both Zen and Tibetan Buddhism for over 30 years. He's also trained with Byron Katie and has practiced the work of Byron Katie for over 20 years.

Brian's motive through his studies and search was to synthesize and distill the essence of what makes a knowledge of our fundamental okay-ness as possible and easily accessible. And so, without any further delay, I'd like to welcome Brian Adler. Hey, how are you doing, Brian?

[00:00:58] Brian Adler: Hey, Dylan.

[00:00:59] Dylan Watkins: Good to see you bro.

[00:01:00] Brian Adler: Good, how are you doing? Yeah, you too.

[00:01:01] Dylan Watkins: Very good. I'm very okay with this.

[00:01:03] Brian Adler: Awesome.

[00:01:06] Dylan Watkins: Man, it's always epic to talk with you, man. Whenever I chat with you, I always get this like super sense of being grounded and super sense of like, you know, even if things aren't okay, they are okay. And I there's a lot you know, I think that the way that you hold yourself, the way that you frame this reality, the way that you help people is something that could benefit a lot of people.

And so, I'm sure this wasn't something that you didn't kind of pop out of your mom's womb with, I'm sure that wasn't just kind of out the gate, so, I'd like to really start this party off with talking about how, I mean, can you talk to me a bit of your journey with this whole understanding, your whole internal mental landscape? What was the whole motivation that got you?

[00:01:53] Brian Adler: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Well, throughout my childhood, I experienced a lot of depression. And I think, in particular, I had like this really chronic sense of myself as being different. Like there was something wrong with me. And in my early adulthood, I just became very focused, hyper focused on searching for some sort of insight or breakthrough or, you know, help that could really just give me an experience of what I imagined other people had easily, which was feeling okay with their lives.

And you know, it's like, people take for granted this experience of feeling okay, or at least I imagine they did. And I was really, really driven by a sense of really like having no choice, but needing to really even just to function, needing to, have some sort of insight or understanding that transformed my life. It felt like a do or die kind of thing. So, that was my early motivation., yeah.

[00:03:21] Dylan Watkins: So, it all started from the pain of actually feeling that the negativity, depressing – there was a lot of internal talking, those types of things?

[00:03:28] Brian Adler: Well, there was a sense of futility like that no matter what I did, there was this persistent sense that there was something not okay, that there was something wrong with me.

And I was driven by a search to try to make it better. In a sense, I mean, it was like in, you know, as I imagine we'll go into, it was misguided, but it was also extremely understandable. When there's a sense of a problem, we become fixated on how to solve the problem. And, ironically, as it turns out, that's what perpetuates the problem, but in fact, that was precisely what was motivating me in the beginning, just like this unquenchable search to solve the problem of myself, is really how I got started.

[00:04:20] Dylan Watkins: That's excellent. And, yeah, I mean, it's that whole, like, what resist, persists kind of thing.

[00:04:27] Brian Adler: Yes, exactly, yeah.

[00:04:28] Dylan Watkins: You push up against it and then you fight it and that doesn't really make, you know, you're fighting, you know, when the strength, isn't the way, you know. I think like jujitsu kind of stuff, you know, not effort, you know, it's a skill. So, what did you try? So, what were some of the things that you tried along the journey to try to quench that thirst?

[00:04:49] Brian Adler: Well, I started with – I mean, I actually got a little bit lucky because early on, I experimented with psychedelics. And mushrooms and ecstasy both gave me little glimpses. Unfortunately, the glimpses they give winds up being mistaken with the experience. And so, you know, like I had these breakthrough moments of peace and clarity and like an intuition that love and fundamental okay-ness really is the nature of life. But I started to associate it with the experiences I was having on those drugs. And so, although it gave me a really useful glimpse, it also kind of set me up to try to recapture that experience, which also is another trap, like when you associate wellbeing with a particular experience, then you're always trying to hold on to that experience or get back to it, or maintain it or whatever. So that was an early experience that I had that was both useful, but then also ultimately counterproductive.

[00:06:04] Dylan Watkins: It's funny, like, especially with like psychedelics and other types of experiences, it gives you a glimpse of what's possible, you know? It's like all of a sudden, you know, you're level 100 in the World of Warcraft, right, and you have all these powers and abilities and you're supercharged up, like I'm the most powerful thing ever, and you wake up, like, I lost it. I lost it. I had the secrets to the universe, and now they're gone.

[00:06:29] Brian Adler: Well, again, so the key is that, the wellbeing that we're after, gets mistaken for a particular experience. And as long as you're associating it with particular experience, then you become addicted to that experience. And so, yeah.

[00:06:49] Dylan Watkins: You're talking about the difference trying to consume love versus cultivate love, right, or for example, like that kind of pattern of behavior. So, instead of like going out and saying, like, for example, like the only way I can be happy is if I'm on drugs, the only way I can be happy is if I – it's the only way I can be happy if part is the issue, right?

[00:07:11] Brian Adler: Yes, that’s exactly right. And in fact – but it's more fundamental than we realize, because the bottom line for virtually everyone, is, the only way I can be happy, is if I'm having a particular thought or particular feeling that we associate with happiness. Everybody has a different strategy of how to get that thought or feeling, you know, like for some people, it's money, for some people status, for some people it's relationship, whatever, but underneath it all, we associate wellbeing with a particular feeling or a particular thought or a particular sense of ourselves. And that's the trap because thoughts and feelings are just part of this mind stream, that's always changing from moment to moment. And as far as I've experienced, there's nothing that makes that thought stream be permanent, anything, it's always in motion.

[00:08:03] Dylan Watkins: Got it. So, you're saying that you don't necessarily need to feel a certain way, or be a certain way to be okay, you're abstracting out, right?

[00:08:12] Brian Adler: That’s right.

[00:08:13] Dylan Watkins: Because you're talking about like the way I think of it in terms of like, the geeky clinical terms, like your limbic system, right, your limbic system is what you feel, right, and it says you're going through it, and it gives you all the sensation. So, like, if I want, if I want to feel terrible, all I need to do is drink a whole bunch of coffee, not work out, don't do any mindful activities and just really, really think hard about things and try to think my way to the problem, right? It's a great way for me to cause fights, you should check it out, you should try it sometime. It's a good time. Well, that's what I'm saying, but, the only way I can be happy is if I do all of those other things, right, the only way I can be happy is if I, you know, do all those other activities.

But what you're saying is that, even if you are in that state, even if I am in that state, I can still de-associate myself from those feelings from that thought.

[00:09:07] Brian Adler: That's exactly right. Well, yeah.

[00:09:09] Dylan Watkins: How do you – let me ask you, like, let's look at technology, right? How do you quiet the mind with all this fast paced tech technology around us right now? What does that look like?

[00:09:18] Brian Adler: Right. Well, so that's another, I guess trap, because like, for example, people who are into meditation, misunderstand meditation. The point of it, they think, okay, what I'm doing is I'm relaxing, I'm quieting the mind, you know, I’m getting to this peaceful state, but again, anything that can change, does change, anything that hasn't always been a certain way, will never remain a certain way. And so when we associate wellbeing, not only with any particular external circumstance in our life, but when we associate it with a mental state, we're putting – we're basically putting all our chickens in something that you all – with all of our eggs in something that can't remain a certain way.

So, the answer to the question, how do you like remain calm or how do you, you know, remain peaceful, or how do you quiet the mind, is that you don't, you recognize that it doesn't need to.

When you deeply and profoundly recognize that the mind doesn't have to be relaxed, it doesn't have to be quiet, it doesn't have to be still, it can just be, however it is, this paradox happens and it starts to quiet down. And the reason why it starts to quiet down is the mind is motivated to solve the problem of itself. That's what keeps it churning. So, when there's a recognition, it's okay as it is, it's motivation to try to fix itself subsides, and then it gets quiet.

So, basically, the answer to your question is, it gets quiet by realizing it doesn't have to.

[00:11:00] Dylan Watkins: got it. So it's a couple different parts with that. So, one, you can recognize that it's fast paced, and things are going crazy and you're being aware, and then you could then recognize that, then you're trying to fix the problem, and then you've got to shift the recognition beyond that, shifting the problem, to just accepting it, and then you accept it, like, is that what you're saying? Like in terms of like –

[00:11:21] Brian Adler: Well, it's almost what – so it's close, that's close to what I'm saying. So, when there's a recognition of the strategy or the motivation to try to fix the problem, the reason why I call the process that I teach, noticing, is because, you're not trying to change anything, you're just trying to notice. Well, one of the things that you'll notice is the chronic fixation on trying to change things. But here's the key, that habit or addiction to trying to fix things, doesn't itself, need to be fixed, it just needs to be noticed, because what's noticing it, is already okay.

That's the key. When there's a recognition of the mind's addiction to fixing, the intelligence that notices that, isn't doing that, it's just noticing.

[00:12:11] Dylan Watkins: That's so good. Yeah. I was talking to you a little bit before this podcast, how this weekend, one of the things I realized that I was struggling with, is with these self-judgment or these judgments about myself with people, or with the fact that you have a lovely head of hair on, and like any of those situations that I'm like, there's these judgments and storylines that pop up, that stop me from actually connecting. And I was able to get out of that set and say, okay, and recognize that I was doing a story or recognize I was doing a judgment and I would let go of it.

And there was a lot of dancing going on the weekend, and so I would feel myself get self-conscious and I would be, let it go, let it go. And I was more so – I'd recognize the story and I would just like, just let go of it. And that was a thing I kept doing and I felt a lot more, let's say joyous after going through it.

[00:13:02] Brian Adler: So, it's not that there's anything that actually needs to be let go of because what happens is there's a recognition that we're actually not holding it and it's not holding us anymore. So it's like, it's raining outside and that's fine, it's no problem, it has nothing to do with me. When there's a similar recognition of mind, of our own thought stream, it's mental rain, it's fine, then it doesn't matter what it's doing.

And ironically, as soon as there's a recognition, it doesn't matter what it's doing, it gets quiet.

[00:13:38] Dylan Watkins: Yeah. That's awesome. So, I mean, that ties into the other part, I think, which is, I think critical part of this being okay-ness, is, not taking things personal. I think oftentimes, especially with entrepreneurs and people putting their stuff out there, they're, going on a podcast, or they're making their own podcasts, or they're doing something for the first time and there's a lot of, you know, things that are going on and someone might make a comment about something about, the audio quality was –I couldn't listen to it.

And it’s like, it's not my fault or insert whatever, whatever there is. It is – how does it also tie in with the not taking things personal, even if someone is, you know, saying things that might be critical of what you say, do think or behave or even anything.

[00:14:26] Brian Adler: Great. So, you know, it's one of those things, like if I say don't think of flying elephants, immediately, you're going to be thinking of flying elephants. It's not really possible to not take things personally, because the mind is programmed probably, you know, like evolutionarily, to have strategies, to create optimal circumstances, as optimal as possible. Like literally, our brains have evolved as this cool tool that can make situations better. And it's always working on that task.

And one of the ways it does that is by taking things personally. So, making it stop, is, you know, like chasing windmills or whatever the expression is. That's not what happens. What happens is, there's a recognition that it's a useful tool, but it's not us, it's something the brain is doing for a reason, a reason that we can have empathy for, it wants the best outcome. You know, there's nothing wrong with that.

When there's a recognition that the mind is doing something really in service to life and maybe it's misguided, maybe it's not, but it has an understandable motivation, but more importantly, it's not who we are, it's not what we are, it's just a mental process. Then there's this recognition of thoughts of taking it personally, but there isn't a taking of that personally. That's the key. So, it's not, don't take it personally. It's recognizing that the taking it personally is not personal. Does that make sense?

[00:16:06] Dylan Watkins: Yeah, it does, it does. I like that too. It’s almost like, here's what was coming to my mind, it’s almost like if you have a pet and that pet brings you something, maybe it's a random toy or a dead animal, whatever, they bring you something, like, hey, I brought you this. And you're like, oh, thank you for that, this is absolutely not useful. and might be toxic, but I will put that to a side. Thank you for thinking of me, right? It's almost that same type of thought, you know, and that's the ego taking something personal, go, hey, we should be aware of this. You're like, yes, I see what you're saying. I thank you for this thing I’m not going to use, I will put it off to the side, pat it on the head, go about your day.

[00:16:49] Brian Adler: That's exactly right, yeah. It's basically learning how to relate to your own mind in exactly that way.

[00:16:56] Dylan Watkins: Yeah, okay. That's going to be in my head now, yeah. We got the VR jungle podcast, he was talking about you know, and he put a little comment in here, we'll just comment on it real quick here. Stay modest and know the next steps and you'll make it and you'll be better at life is one big lesson. Do you have any thoughts on that one, Brian?

[00:17:17] Brian Adler: Yeah, I mean, I like the idea that life is one big lesson because, you know, like when our interpretations of what's happening kind of happen beneath the level of recognition, like that's where all suffering happens, when something happens and then we interpret it as meaning something about who we are or what we are, or how our life is going.

We're not actually suffering what's happening, we're suffering that unconscious interpretation of what's happening. And so, seeing basically anything that life can bring as a lesson is basically kind of like being open to any life circumstance, to any life situation, as another opportunity to experience that disidentification that we were talking about? Like, so, what's it like to be fundamentally okay when this is happening, when this is happening, when this is happening?

[00:18:17] Dylan Watkins: That's cool. So, it's almost like you're reframing the meaning, right? The meaning of what's happening to you and in terms of something happens, instead of it being, that is good or that it's bad, it's just, that is a lesson, it is a carbon neutral lesson, you know?

[00:18:30] Brian Adler: Right. Or, what I would say is, even more fundamentally, because we actually don't even experience the thing out there. That's happening. All we ever experience is our own mind, as it interprets, it, gives it meaning, categorizes it, creates a past and a future from it.

Recognizing that that's all we're experiencing, is our own mind, is really where the freedom lies.

[00:18:51] Dylan Watkins: And what's interesting about that is, look at this in terms of social dynamics., you know, when we experience pain, physical pain, right., it's the same thing as when we feel – experience social pain, it kind of registers in the same parts of the brain, right, you have that, oh my God, that hurts. Whether it's, you know, something physical happens or someone's critical to you. And so, it's very easy, I think for us and me and you in this state where we're in right now, to be able to have this type of conversation, and go back and forth. But what would you recommend in terms of like mindset exercise, or things that you could do, to get ready for that confrontation?

Because I think once you're in it, it's very hard to kind of separate yourself from the situation. So, how would you prime the brain to go in a situation where you're like, there's going to be conflict ahead. What can I do to prep for that? What advice do you have?

[00:19:46] Brian Adler: I love that question. So, the first thing is that it's natural and human to have reactions, so, what isn't necessary is seizing control of the brain seizing control of the conditioning. Like, you know, what isn't necessary is doing some mind – Jedi mind trick so you never have fear or you never have sadness, or you never have anger. That's not what it's about. What it's about is, I mean, I really kind of shy away from the idea of cultivating something or practicing something, because this is really more about recognizing that we're already okay. Having said that, there is a cultivation of compassion for the mind as it does whatever it does. So, having some experience and some confidence, some preexisting confidence with, oh, there's my mind reacting with anger to this situation, there's my mind reacting with fear to the situation, and simultaneously, disidentifying with it, and yet having compassion for it, because it's very human and it's very understandable to, you know, like anyone, if they have some extremely undesirable thing happen, is going to have human reactions to that. I mean, I've never met anyone who doesn't. And yet, when there's this, noticing, when there's this recognition of it, and that recognition, rather than trying to control it, meets it with understanding and compassion, then it basically deepens our confidence that we are okay, regardless of what our mind is doing, including in situations that where there's a triggering emotion happening.

[00:21:43] Dylan Watkins: Got it. So it's almost like what you're saying is, the main thing that you can do in terms of a prep work or something going into a conflict or a situation, is to just recognize that you will get triggered, things will happen, and that will be okay. And the best thing to do it, is to not react, but just be aware of how the situation is making you feel, and understanding that, and accepting those feelings that go through you, versus trying to reject your own feelings or try to control what the other person does.

[00:22:16] Brian Adler: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's a deeper layer. I don't know, like how deep we want to go with this.

[00:22:24] Dylan Watkins: Lets let's keep going. I'm going for the deep end.

[00:22:26] Brian Adler: All right, beautiful. So, in any situation where something's happening, the first layer, is the mental reactivity, you know, like I really don't want this to be happening, or I really need this to be different or, you know, whatever, like some kind of like what's happening isn't okay, and I want it to be something else.

But behind that, and this is the thing that – this is really why I call it noticing practice, because there's another aspect of our experience that because we're identified with it, which means because we think we are it, it isn't being noticed. It's an experience, just like the fear, just like the anger, just like the, whatever, but it's an experience that's being identified with.

And the simplest way to say it is, it's the sense of ourselves who is wishing this situation was different. The sense of ourselves who's being upset by this situation, so, there's not just the upset, but there's the thought and the feeling it's really kind of a synergistic, constellation of both, the thought or the feeling of ourselves, wanting to be happy, wanting to not be upset. When that sense of self is noticed, the me who has, you know, like preferences about how life goes, when that sense of self is recognized, instead of identified with, then the entire machinery of however our brain is conditioned, starts to come apart. It starts to untangle.

So, the key is to not only notice what we're experiencing, but notice that the sense of there being a me, who is experiencing something is also an experience. And when that gets noticed, what's noticing it, is this fundamental or unconditional wellbeing that we're talking about.

[00:24:28] Dylan Watkins: Got it. So, what you're saying is, it's almost like there's multiple lenses on, that you have, right, and you have, like, you have a pair of shades on, you have a pair of glasses on, and then you have all these lenses on, and so you're going through it, and you're recognizing, and each time you recognize it, you take off one pair of glasses.

[00:24:45] Brian Adler: That's exactly right.

[00:24:46] Dylan Watkins: And you go back again. So, you're looking at that from a perspective of, okay, in this situation, Brian's stopping me from doing this thing. I can't believe Brian's doing that. And then I go back one, I go, oh, man, it's not Brian doing that, I'm feeling this way, I'm trying to control the situation here, and I'm trying to control Brian. It's really my – I wish I could just be happy. Why am I always this way? And I go to myself, and then I take a step back from that, and go, oh, I feel for you little ego person of myself, and I recognize that you want to be happy, and I know you're not right now, and that's okay, but I will be with you, right? And then you take a step back from that and you've taken off those glasses.

[00:25:32] Brian Adler: That's exactly right.

[00:25:33] Dylan Watkins: But going back through that process.

[00:25:33] Brian Adler: And when you've taken all of that, and this is – it gets pretty profound and a little bit weird to talk about because the original glasses, and I'm not really like that well versed in developmental psychology, but it's definitely not something we're born with. The original pair of glasses is something that develops along with the sense of self when we're somewhere in between infancy and toddlerhood, it's the sense that there is a me, at all. And when that me, who even like, even the me who seems to be noticing all these other layers, when that, because even that is just mental phenomena, it's just thought and feeling mind stream, you know, it's like, it's either it's a sense of contraction here, or it's a sense of contraction in the head, in the brain, when the original glasses get taken off and looked at, which is the sense of self itself, what happens is, awareness noticing intelligence, this function to be aware of something, gets completely uncoupled from the concept of me. And then there's nowhere for dissatisfaction to stick anymore. There's just this noticing awareness.

[00:27:02] Dylan Watkins: Can you say it one more time? You said awareness, noticing attention, causes what to happen? Can you say that one more time for me?

[00:27:07] Brian Adler: So, what happens really from childhood on, is, awareness, that which notices is – and this is – it's like, the way I talk about it with my clients is that, we're in a trance basically, whenever we're unhappy, whenever we're experiencing dissatisfaction, we're in a trance, or we're hypnotized. And the hypnosis is when awareness is coupled with the sense of self, the sense of self is an experience. Awareness is not an experience. Awareness is the recognition of experience, but in our normal, in our typical state, that noticing is coupled with the concept, me, the concept I, I'm noticing, I'm seeing, I'm feeling.

When that fundamental or somewhat primal or primitive experience called, me, or the sense of self or the thought of me is noticed, then awareness is uncoupled from it. It's just noticing it. And then its state, its nature becomes more apparent because the glasses were making it seem like a me, but it's not a me. It's not a self. It's not a point. It's not fixed thing with a biography. It's just this aware intelligence. And so, the reason why ultimately that okay-ness can be experienced regardless of circumstances is because it's in the nature of awareness to be okay, regardless of what awareness is lighting up, even if what it's lighting up is thoughts of not being okay.

[00:28:58] Dylan Watkins: Got it. So, well, I'm not going to say, got it. I'm processing what you're saying. And from what I understand, and from my understanding of what you're saying, is that, there is an awareness, something that is observing what we are doing, and what it's doing is, whenever we try to apply labels on something, and judgements on things and trying to shift anything that is not now, right, I wish it would be different in the future, I wish I was something in the past, I wish I had these other things.

Whenever we try to control direct, or try to desire something in a direction, then that creates that sense of not being okay, versus no matter where we're at right now, whether, we’re a billionaire, whether we're a poor person, whether we're fully healthy, whether we're entirely sick, whether we're, you know, just about to die, whatever the situation is, we're okay, we are okay, because we are, we are simply observing what is around us at any point in time. And everything else is just us, trying to control the situation of life happening around us.

[00:30:10] Brian Adler: That's right. The only thing I want to add to that is, the sense of being someone who either understands or doesn't understand this, who either remembers this or doesn't remember it, who either gets it or doesn't get it, is just mental phenomena, it isn't anything to remember, there isn't anything to know, there isn't anything to understand, because we are not the mental processes that have temporary and transient getting something or understanding something or feeling something. So it's disidentifying with the me who gets it or doesn't get it. It's not getting it and then maintaining the getting it, it's recognizing it, it's the recognition that the getting it, and not getting it, is just mental phenomena that comes and goes.

[00:31:05] Dylan Watkins: Got it. I have two parts to that, first, MG here had a solid comment that I want to light up right here. I don’t know if you've seen Tropic Thunder, it seems like the meme from Tropic Thunder right now, is, I'm the dude acting like a dude playing another dude. That’s a pretty solid quote there, MG, I appreciate that. And that's almost like our awareness, you know, is disguised as a dude playing another dude right now.

[00:31:37] Brian Adler: That’s right, yeah.

[00:31:38] Dylan Watkins: And really what we are is, and my question then is, if that is the kind of the comment that you're making, or kind of the point, then what are we, what is – if we are not our mental phenomenon, and we are not our physical bodies, and we are not our limbic systems, then what, at the essence of us, are we?

[00:31:57] Brian Adler: So, I don't want to answer that question in some sort of mystical mumbo jumbo way, so like, because for this to be useful, there has to be a recognition, oh yeah, that's in fact, actually my experience.

We are not any of that mental phenomena, we are what notices that mental phenomena, literally, because if we can notice it, it's not what we are, like, we aren't what we notice, we are what notices. So, I don't want to give it a name, I don't want to give it a label, just that, whatever it is that we are, we are not what is noticed. And all this mental phenomena, is something that can be noticed, and therefore, it's not what we are.

[00:32:45] Dylan Watkins: Okay. I'm hearing you on that one. The first thing that went to my head was like, but if you – but what you could do is, you could notice it and you could package it up and you could label it and then you could sell it. That'd be great. Okay. So, anything that you can notice isn't you.

[00:33:02] Brian Adler: That's right.

[00:33:03] Dylan Watkins: And that's what that comes down to.

[00:33:04] Brian Adler: I mean, think about it. That's just like, not only can you observe that to be true because like – and this is the thing is like, when the sense of self, like, we're just talking about this, but if there's an actual observation of the sense of self, there's a deep and tacit experiential understanding that we are not it, in the same way that you can, like, you know, you can look at a thing, and because it's being seen, there's a recognition that we aren't, it.

What happens with mental phenomena is, it doesn't get recognized, it gets overlook. It's like, you know, a fish overlooking water. So, when the sense of self, the original, like a motivating force behind the trance, you know, that we spend our whole lives in, when that sense of self is recognized, there's like this, you know, chills down the spine light bulb of, oh my God, that's not me, or rather, that is the sense of me, but it's not what I am, because I'm what's seeing it.

And even that thought, even that insight, even that light bulb, is not what we are, it's also just the mind. So, ultimately what I'm talking about, most people think wellbeing comes from having an optimal mental state, by one means or another. And what I'm talking about, isn't that, it's the recognition that we are not that mental state. And so, it's fine being however it is.

[00:34:43] Dylan Watkins: And you're talking about this awareness of the awareness, right? There's this awareness of the mental phenomenon, an awareness of whatever's going on in your mental landscapes and this stuff that's going on.

Now, how, because it's one thing to say, okay, yeah, no problem. I, for the most part or from what I understand, I get what you're saying about, we can just continuously be aware of that situation, but then how do you actually tactically practically bring that into the forefront? How do you practice that on a day to day basis, so that you don't – it's not just something that's a meme of the dude being disguised as another dude, how do you integrate that into you?

[00:35:20] Brian Adler: Yeah. So, the reason why it seems – the reason why it isn't obvious, and it is only intellectually or conceptually clear, but not experientially clear is because there's something arising that's actually still being identified with, instead of being recognized.

Another way of saying it is, the place from which that question arose, the sense, okay, well, that's fine, but that's not really my experience. There's an experience arising right now, that's persuasive, that you're not already in that place in reality. When that mental phenomena, maybe a feeling in the chest, maybe a squeezing in the brain, maybe some concept of yourself, when the mental phenomena that is responsible for it, not seeming to already be true is noticed, there's a recognition that it's already true.

So, what happens is, there's this experiential sense of being fine in the presence of the personality as it is, but it's not something you can understand intellectually, there has to be an actual noticing. The answer to your question is, there has to be a noticing of what's making it seem like it's not already true.

[00:36:47] Dylan Watkins: And then my question for that is, how do you develop the habit of noticing?

[00:36:56] Brian Adler: So, luckily, we have this built in thing where stuff happens and the mind reacts. And normally what happens is, we follow our typical strategies of trying to fix it or change it, or have some control over it. If instead, we become curious, not only to what we're experiencing. But what's behind, like I said, the answer to your question is, we take off the glasses and we look at them. So, there's the feeling of something not being okay, but then behind that, there's this sense of like, oh, I just really wish it was different, like fundamentally, when something's really triggering, it has to be triggering in one of three ways; it's either triggering because there's a sense of craving, oh, I just really want this thing that, I mean, or there's a sense of aversion, oh, I just really, like, it feels like it's hurting me, that this thing is happening, or there's a sense of identity that this thing is happening means I'm broken, I'm flawed, I'm deficient in some way.

As we dive deeper, instead of so like – the momentum is to stay with our strategies of trying to fix it or change it or do something about it. But if instead, we turn awareness towards the source, towards the sense of ourselves really needing the situation to be different, and we look at it, so, we turn around, we turn attention around, and we look at the thoughts and feelings of things aren't okay, they're horrible, I need them to be different, then that disidentification process starts to occur. There's like, so basically you start experience yourself as the me who has a problem, but as this – friend in the presence of the me, who has a problem.

And the more that becomes your actual felt experience, that you are with or alongside or in the presence of this suffering self, rather than you are this suffering self, then what happens is, there starts to be an actual ease, an actual sense of humor, an actual, oh my gosh, it really is okay. A sense that it's not a life or death situation. It's really actually, okay. And basically, over time, what develops is an actual confidence that the mind can do whatever it's doing, and it doesn't actually affect us.

[00:39:40] Dylan Watkins: So, it's almost like, instead of – you're talking about like, instead of rejecting these feelings or shaming yourself for having these feelings or shaming your feelings, for having cravings, or, you know, any of those situations, it's recognizing it, and then just being the friend that is witnessing the friend with the cravings or the judgment or the new things, and then just be there with them, you know, as a good friend would do.

[00:40:06] Brian Adler: That’s exactly right.

[00:40:07] Dylan Watkins: And as most significant others, like girls want you to do, they don't want you to fix the problem, they just want – they want you to be there with them as they experience the problem.

[00:40:17] Brian Adler: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. So, what happens is, when we have that kind of relationship with our own mind, it winds up, like I can't remember who I'm quoting, but there's some quote like, the mind is a useful servant or a useful secretary, but it's a terrible boss, something to that effect.

So, what happens is, there's this humor or this friendliness towards the mind doing its various strategies, but there's no longer the sense that it's the one in charge, any more than your hand is in charge, your hand is just a tool in the same way that your hand is just a tool, the mind is just a tool. And when the mind gets demoted to tool status, it becomes okay, whatever it's doing.

[00:41:04] Dylan Watkins: Got it. So, it's not even your mind that's controlled, it's the consciousness that is controlling the mind that is really the observer of the mind and all of those things, because none of those things actually have effect.

They mostly sway of opinions, they sway your actions, in some way, if you give them ability to vote on what you do, I’m hungry, I'm angry, I'm, you know, whatever, self-conscious, those are all votes that you can choose to tally up or not.

[00:41:36] Brian Adler: Yeah. And one of the things I would say is that, the mind becomes more intelligent or more discerning or more wise after it gets demoted, so when there's the sense that everything is at stake with having things be a particular way, when the mind strategies and motivations seem like the one and only way to be okay, it winds up being not very good at its job but when there's that sense of compassion or empathy or humor, you know, depending, for the mind, doing whatever it does, it winds up getting smarter. So, we wind up being less reactive in a sense, because the reactivity isn't taken so seriously.

[00:42:25] Dylan Watkins: So, then, yeah, and you said it was compassion, empathy and humor, is that what you said or the kind of the bomb diffusal kit of the mind kind of thing?

[00:42:36] Brian Adler: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, think about it – so, like, we spend our whole lives, like everybody – everyone I've ever worked with, including myself, has some sort of version of, I absolutely need this thing to be ultimately and totally, and absolutely okay, and yet we have this intuition that it's impossible. Everyone has some version of this, I need this thing, and yet I can't get this thing. And so life becomes this real, like kind of miserable chore or a wild goose chase where we're like, it's never quite done, it's never quite there. And it's like, you know, it's kind of depressing.

When there's this recognition that the unsolvable puzzle doesn't actually need to be solved, it's funny, it's really funny. There's humor and compassion and relief. Like, oh my gosh, I don't have to not be depressed, I don't have to not be upset, I don't have to not be unfulfilled, then all of the sudden it's so ironic, all of those things wind up happening not because we finally got there, but because we deeply and profoundly realized we didn't have to.

[00:43:50] Dylan Watkins: So, it's almost like, what we're doing is, we are creating our own unhappiness by creating these mental thoughts and kicking the can of this desire, right? You go up, you kick it, and then you go chase it and then you're happy to kick it. And then you feel this sense of feeling defeated or, you know, as in –

[00:44:14] Brian Adler: Futility.

[00:44:15] Dylan Watkins: Futility, a futility, and that's one thing, like, one thing in terms like game designs and things like that, is like, if you make a game unwinnable, if you feel like every time you get close to the goal post, someone moves the goal post, you feel like the game is going to fail, you feel like there's no way to win, you feel like what's the point, you feel that sense of defeatism, that then causes you to then, you know, want to quit or want to try to find any kind of quick win, right. And a quick win could be crappy food, it could be drugs, it could be, you know, porn, it could be basically anything that gives you a quick bump, to where it’s like, I'm not playing that game, I'm taking my ball and I'm going home and eating a whole bag of Cheetos.

[00:44:52] Brian Adler: That's exactly right. And so, basically the fundamental confusion at the source of what you just described is when wellbeing is equated with the mind, when the wellbeing is, is equated with the mental state, when wellbeing is equated with what we're thinking and feeling, then that futility is inevitable, because it's impossible to have an ideal experience and keep it there. it doesn't happen.

[00:45:25] Dylan Watkins: That's really, really interesting. I had this weekend, where the guy who was hosting it, he had, two things he said every single time, and it was, only joy, and hold on tight. And there was a lot of joy, and there was a lot of holding on tight. And so, I'm wondering if you have any comments around that and how that kind of relates, or doesn't relate to what you're talking about, about this okay-ness and no matter what happens in the situation, to kind of have a certain, way around compassion, empathy, or humor? And it doesn't have to be, if you –

[00:46:16] Brian Adler: Well, I feel – I mean I don't know exactly what he meant, but here's what I'll say about that. When there's like this, I mean, it's a very uptight mental state to believe that we need to be relaxed when we are not, to believe we need to be in acceptance when we are not.

Striving for acceptance in the presence of non-acceptance is extremely non accepting. So, the only actual acceptance or surrender in the presence of tension or non-surrender or searching, is the recognition that it's okay, it's okay for the mind to be searching, it's okay for the mind to be seeking, it's okay for the mind to be resisting. That's what non-resistance – that's what actual non-resistance is, it's so all-encompassing it's so allowing, that it allows resistance and non-acceptance, to be exactly as it is. That’s the freedom, that's how freedom happens right now. The recognition that the mind wanting things to be different, doesn't need to be different.

[00:47:40] Dylan Watkins: So, accepting all things, even your desire to have something be different, is the acceptance of that. And once you accept all things, it's like, it's the ultimate form of acceptance, is true freedom.

[00:47:53] Brian Adler: Yeah. Except, here's the thing, because the mind, the ego or the personality, or the sense of self so wants to co-op this, you know, it's like, it's embedded that even what you just said, it's like, how do I do what he's talking about? You don't. The me that is trying to figure out how to do this, doesn't do it. It gets recognized to be other than what we are.

[00:48:20] Dylan Watkins: And I think what I'm trying to look at, and it's funny you say it though, is that, there is – this is a mindset, this is a way of understanding, a way, a lens to look through life, so this constant noticing, right? And that is a cultivation. There is that is a mindset that then forms a strategy, which that strategy is constant and constant knowingness. And so, constant, okay, what am I feeling? Notice that. What am I feeling? Notice that. What am I feeling? Noticing that. And that is something that is a state that we're not – I'm definitely not used to doing. So, what I'm trying to understand this from the point of, is, tactically practically, how do I integrate this into my life so that when I can – when I get in those situations, being able to recognize and let go, recognize and let go, and that process, you know, do I need a tattoo it on my arm, inside of my eyelids when I close my eyes, like just, you know?

[00:49:13] Brian Adler: So, here's the thing; the mind understands and doesn't understand, it remembers and forgets, and it kind of goes through cycles all the time, but noticing actually isn't ever not happening, unless we're dead, and then we don't know what's happening or maybe in like the deepest layers of sleep. Noticing isn't actually something that needs to be maintained as a strategy. What happens is, something's arising and there's a recognition of it. The one caveat to that is, it is useful if what's being recognized is recognized through the lens of, it's not okay. There's another experience that's reacting to the experience, there's an experience of mind reacting to another experience of mind. And that's the thing to notice.

So, you don't want to turn this into a goal of self-improvement that's just another trap that keeps it going, but you do want to notice if that is happening. So, it's like, there's all these things happening, and then there's the mind trying to turn this into a practice. How do I do what he was talking about? Notice that, noticing how do I do what he was talking about, is itself, what I'm talking about, and it makes it so there's nothing to do.

[00:50:41] Dylan Watkins: It's interesting. How do you balance that with, you know, our other desires for progress and for achievement, right, in life goals? If I do that, I’d just stop eating, stop drinking and sit in the corner and die.

[00:50:56] Brian Adler: That's a really good question. So, when I work with people and we come, like there's – none of the experiences that we have are actually a problem, including desire. So, one of the questions I ask people when they become aware of some desire they have like, you know, it's like, obviously, like, I mean, I experience desire all the time. There's a desire to improve our finances, there's a desire to, you know, improve our life situation in any number of ways. The question I ask people is, as you notice that desire, does the desire feel inspiring or does it feel debilitating?

If you're thirsty, I would say pretty much universally, unless you're in a desert or something, if you're thirsty, and there's a desire for water, it's inspirational of action, there's like, oh, thirst, desire for water, and then there's a reaching for the glass, filling the glass and drinking. There's no problem with that.

Sometimes, desire gets experienced in a debilitating way though. It's not inspiring, it's not enlivening, it doesn't increase our sense of – we don't have a yes in relationship to it. And those are the moments where there's something deeper to notice. But desire in and of itself, like obviously, if you know, this isn't about having no desire, because then, you're right, we would just sit and be unmoving and we die. That's not what I'm talking about. But awareness helps us distinguish desire that is life positive or desire that's, you know, making us be stuck.

[00:52:34] Dylan Watkins: Yeah. So, what you're saying is, it is okay to desire, what it isn't is, whether or not it's like the same thing with the mind, it's a great secretary, it's a terrible master.

[00:52:44] Brian Adler: Exactly. That's right.

[00:52:46] Dylan Watkins: It's on the same page with the desires, if the desires is serving you to motivate you to take action, and it can inspire you to actually do something, because we know when we do something difficult, right, and challenging, at the end of that, it's, like, you know, when people go to boot camp, they say it's the greatest fun they wish they never had again, right, it’s the same type of thing, right. So, that inspiration, so is it serving you to take action or does it feel like a sense of overwhelming you can't do it, and does it go in the areas of de-association and judgment? It's like, everything else with food or with water, there's a level that it serves you and then there's a point that it kills you, right, with all things. So, just noticing seems to be the word, please, anybody's playing, please take a drink every time we say the word noticing, or don't.

But looking at that, is noticing that situation, then it's okay, recognize what is it, and then actively choosing, okay, I'm going to choose this, because it serves me to the highest level.

[00:53:47] Brian Adler: So, here's what I would say, if desire, like, if you just notice the desire and it feels inspirational and like, there's no obstacle to taking, there's no problem, just do the thing, but if it feels anything else, it's not that there's a problem with the desire that you're noticing, we are never actually suffering the thing that we're noticing, what we're suffering always, is the thing that we aren't noticing. So, there's the desire, and there's like the clues that the desire feels problematic, it feels debilitating, but then you want to notice, well, why does it? Guaranteed, behind the desire that feels debilitating, there's going to be a sense of identity, like a sense of either a sense of ourselves as unable to accomplish the thing or a sense of our life situation or circumstances being too difficult or too, you know, something.

So, if we experience desire as anything other than enlivening, the problem isn't the desire, the problem is the unconscious and unaware reaction to the desire that we aren't noticing.

[00:54:57] Dylan Watkins: Got it. The unconscious reaction to the desire. Let me ask you this, in terms of you have this practice, you teach people this way of say, thinking or noticing through life, and what is your ultimate holy grail for your business and for this practice and what do you strive to achieve with this philosophy?

[00:55:33] Brian Adler: So the way I think of it, is, when wellbeing becomes a goal that some future situation has to happen for it to be achieved, we're in some sort of trance, we've been hypnotized we're in some kind of dream. And my interest when I'm working with people is to give them a glimpse of being awake from that dream. So, like in a session when I'm working with somebody, my only interest is guiding them through this noticing practice until there's this felt experiential intuition of being actually okay, regardless of what they're experiencing.

And it happens virtually every time in the very first session, and like, I can see like this holy crap kind of moment kind of come over people's eyes. And then I say, that, that's the point of what we're doing. And so, showing people that not just explain, like, all we're doing in this conversation is explaining it, but having people go, oh, and then I say, that's the point. And then, so what happens is, literally the nervous system reorients around that. And in place of this feudal search that never finishes itself, there starts to be this confidence or this intuition, deepening intuition of being fundamentally okay rather than being fundamentally in need of something to be different. So, the glimpse of that, is what motivates me to work with people.

[00:57:23] Dylan Watkins: Got it. You're shaping them to this sense of being okay and giving them awareness around it and kind you know, it's a form you know, guiding people to a place of no suffering, you know?

[00:57:38] Brian Adler: Yes, exactly. And here's the key that I want to really share, because this is really important, because people come to me looking for relief from depression or looking for relief from anxiety, or looking, you know, entrepreneurs looking for specific, you know, goals of having something change in their, you know, finances or whatever. And so, the key is, when they get that deep experiential glimpse of okay-ness, even without anything else changing, that's a fundamental paradigm shift. It's not just that we have this like, oh, yeah, I'm actually fine. It's that we have this, oh, I'm actually fine without anything changing at all. And that actually gives us the freedom to keep working on our goals, doing whatever it is. There's nothing wrong with doing that. But when you're doing it from a place of knowing you're okay, regardless of the outcome, it's a lot more fun than, oh my gosh, everything's on the line. Whether this thing works out or not.

[00:58:39] Dylan Watkins: Yeah. It brings you into more of a playful mindset versus serious mindset.

[00:58:43] Brian Adler: That's right, that's right. That's exactly right.

[00:58:45] Dylan Watkins: Yeah. What then do you feel is – if you guide people along that path, what generally is the dragon that prevents people from getting there or prevents you from achieving that?

[00:58:58] Brian Adler: from having that glimpse?

[00:58:59] Dylan Watkins: Yeah.

[00:59:07] Brian Adler: I mean, there's some paradoxes here because if someone has the willingness to look, there's really nothing, because it's sort of like passing through this crucible, because for some people, like some people have really gnarly stories about their life, it's never going to happen for me, some kind of, it's totally impossible. Like people have sometimes, you know, really like, I mean, I had really dark kinds – life is this kind of hellish thing that’s the hellscape that's never going to get better.

Even in moments like that, if someone has a willingness to turn attention into notice, that mental phenomena, then the freedom that I'm talking about is possible. Even if someone doesn't have the willingness to look, then what they have instead is, I can't handle this, I can't look. And then if they feel like they can't handle it, it's too much, then all they have to do is notice that. So, I would say that the one thing that keeps this from landing deeply, is that people don't stay with it with curiosity and compassion, because if you stay with it, in what I've experienced, this freedom isn't inaccessible, regardless of what we're experiencing. There's no mental state, there's no thought there's no feeling, there's no – really the only thing that stops us is that we're not willing to look.

[01:00:53] Dylan Watkins: Yeah, so, it’s just not willing to go into the cave, if you're most –to face it, and then accept it.

[01:01:02] Brian Adler: Yeah. And this is like, you know, the thing that makes it much gentler than people imagine, is if we're totally terrified and we don't want to look into the cave, then looking at that is looking into the cave.

[01:01:16] Dylan Watkins: No matter where they're at, you're going to slice them off and have them notice it and recognize it, and they can take the step forward.

[01:01:24] Brian Adler: That’s right. So, it's much gentler and it's much easier, and it's much more direct or immediate than we imagine.

[01:01:32] Dylan Watkins: Love it. Brian, this has been an absolute epic podcast. Thank you for coming on. Is there anything else you'd like to let people know about, before you can tell them how to get ahold of you?

[01:01:45] Brian Adler: No, just that, I mean, you know, this can seem like some sort like what the hell is he talking about, kind of thing. And I don't work with people who have years of meditation behind them. I don't work with like a lot – most of my clients have never done a psychedelic, have never meditated, never anything, and yet, in the first session, usually, maybe the second session at most, people have a glimpse and where I'm able to say, okay, forget everything that you thought you understood, what you just experienced is what we're doing here. It's very reliable. It's very replicable. It's very accessible.

So, I guess I would just encourage people, you know, to have confidence that what we're talking about is actually not that difficult to experience.

[01:02:36] Dylan Watkins: No matter where they're at, it's achievable.

[01:02:39] Brian Adler: Very much so, yeah.

[01:02:41] Dylan Watkins: And if people want to get ahold of you to find out more about this, what can they do?

[01:02:47] Brian Adler: The easiest thing is to go to my Calendly, and schedule like a free 15-minute consult, and we can have a conversation, you know, a one on one.

[01:03:01] Dylan Watkins: And how do they find that Calendly?

[01:03:03] Brian Adler: Well, can we put it like in the show notes or –

[01:03:07] Dylan Watkins: Yeah, we’ll put in the show notes, but is there a website or place for them to go to?

[01:03:11] Brian Adler: Well, I have a presence on Facebook, but the easiest thing is just to go to the Calendly link and make sure you have it.

[01:03:19] Dylan Watkins: Roger that. So, the Calendly link will be in the show notes, everybody, we will be adding that in on the official podcast. You'll be able to get that at the Heroes of Reality website, under Brian Adler's podcast. Thank you so much, Brian, for coming on. It's been an absolute honor and pleasure to have you on. Thank you for taking the time to join us in the show. And I will see you –

[01:03:42] Brian Adler:  You're very welcome. Sounds great, thanks, Dylan.

[01:03:45] Dylan Watkins: All right, brother, take care. All right, bye now.

[01:03:51] Outro: Thank you for listening to the Heroes of Reality Podcast. Check out HeroesofReality.com for more episodes. While you're there, you can also take the Hero's Quiz to find out what kind of hero you are, or, if you have a great story and want to be on the podcast, tell us why your hero's journey will inspire others. Thank you for listening. See you on the other side.

Connect with Brian Adler: https://calendly.com/brianeadler/15min